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  #11  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:22 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: "Bart" <bborb@fusedotnet>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 06:42:43 -0500
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Just a thought, if you're going thru so much labor, maybe have a board
drilled to make a significant sign, shape, or lettering that you could sell
to a business or school, donate to a church.
Bart

"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1136275607.887275.108960@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
> problem.
>
> Here is a picture of a 26x22 array. I got this far and then was worn
> out. Used a little over 500 LEDs on this one! I was worn out because
> the board was wired completely by hand. I would use a PCB from a
> company on this project...
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...dback_1020.jpg
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: "Tim Williams" <tmoran...@charter.net>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1136172350.049224.231720@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Anyway, I gave away around 1,500 to friends. I still have MANY of them
> left.

Say, do you have a range of colors? I'm probably stupid to ask for it, but
a couple hundred LEDs could be nice for a whacky project. Probably is
stupid since about the only indicator I use regularly is my oscilloscope...

> I thought a "fun" project would be to create a "Wall of RAM". Now it
> would be fairly easy to emulate the ram and display the results on the
> wall using a CPLD, but what about actually making real ram?

Ooo, nice.

> Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
> drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?

Not that I know of. LEDs are exponential, not negative-resistance, like
neon lights are. If you had gotten a couple ten-thousand neon lights, you
could do it (although clock would have to be slowed to the 10kHz range!).

> What do you guys think? It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
> that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
> of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
> would look really neat.

You'll need at least 8,192 transistors and 16,384 resistors, to make yea
many RTL inverter R-S flip-flops. To burn LEDs, I suggest using a red to
indicate OFF and a green to indicate ON for each bit. A negative or
positive pulse to the base (supplied by resistor or capacitor) sets state,
while electrical state is read by collector voltage. RTL with typical
transistors will switch in a 100-200 nanoseconds, so should be able to keep
up with a standard clock. I'm not sure how you're going to address it,
since you need essentially eight 9 to 512 decoders!

Lesse, at 5mA per LED, that's a good 25 amperes supply current. 'Gonna want
that as low as possible, i.e., 5V or so. Total dissipation will be on the
order of 125W, not too bad.

For the wiring, runs several feet long will want to be coax or at least laid
against a ground plane or something. Terminating resistors might be a good
idea.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:24 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 19:25:50 -0800, logjam wrote:

> A while back on ebay I was just looking around and came upon 50,000
> LEDs.
>
> Ebay is a dangerous place, I can understand how women go to the store
> and spend $800 window shoping.
>
> $300 later and I have 50,000 LEDs in the mail

...

> Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
> drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?

Yes, but it'd be a nightmare to design; you'd have to come up with
a whole refresh scheme. I'd use flip-flops or real RAM.

> The goal of the project would be a wall of cards, say 4k of ram max.
> This wall of ram would interface to either the Altair that I bought OR
> the Apple 1 kit that I bought on ebay.
>
> What do you guys think?

I think you're crazy, but it does sound like a kewl idea. :-)

> It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
> that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
> of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
> would look really neat.
>
> Tell me what you think.

If you want to do it, (and have the cash) do it. "If you build it,
they will come". :-) Take pictures, and _then_ see what other people
think. :-)

Good Luck!
Rich
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:24 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: "Rich Grise, but drunk" <yahri...@example.net>
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:13:04 -0800, logjam wrote:

> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???

Duh. Sell them to some other sucker on Ebay. ;-P

Good Luck!
Rich
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:25 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 3 Jan 2006 08:37:42 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???

I've been looking for some for a similar type of project.
My idea was to have a computer case that displays certain patterns,
graphics effects such as:
plasma http://www.coloraura.com/artwork/?applet=Plasma
Fire http://www.coloraura.com/artwork/?applet=Fire
Conway's Game of Life (Haven't posted the applet for that one yet)

I might be interested in buying a few thousand LEDs from you :-)
Depending on their specs.
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  #16  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:25 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On 2 Jan 2006 14:13:04 -0800, logjam blurted:

>I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
>Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
>http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
>and a 1 to 1 scale:
>http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
>You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
>LEDs???

Sell them on EBay ??
Spamming this account signifies
your unqualified consent to a free security audit
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  #17  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:26 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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This started as a little thought. Now I'm kind of excited about it!

Rather than have gaps all over the place I've designed it to have LEDs
that are always off in binary view mode. Labels could be placed over
the dead LEDs. Then in a normal mode the display could be used as a
giant bitmapped display. This might make the LED wall more attractive
to other people.

I know, I messed up on all the captions. The COST is correct. $255 vs
$350

1296 bytes
400 mil spacing, 10368 bits of display, 4212 LEDs wasted in binary view
mode
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_full.JPG
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_1to1.JPG

1280 bytes
300 mil spacing, 10240 bits of display, 4160 LEDs wasted in binary view
mode
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_full.JPG
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_1to1.JPG


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  #18  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:26 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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The 400mil display would be a 180x81 pixel display.
The 300mil display would be a 160x90 pixel display.
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  #19  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:27 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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Here is a photo of a 400 mil spaced board that I hand made.
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg

It is 22x26 I think, 572 LEDs.

I never finished it. I decided that if I ever finished the proect I
would buy the PC boards.
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:27 PM
Grant Stockly Grant Stockly is offline
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:06:47 -0800, logjam wrote:

> Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
^^^^^^
> problem.
>

Ah, that explains it. Winter darkness... You crave LIGHT!

--
Regards,
Bob Monsen

"False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they
often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do
little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their
falseness."
-- Charles Darwin
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