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-   -   The RamWall... (http://www.stockly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:11 PM
The RamWall...
 
It all started back in September 2005. I was talking with my buddy Henry (who I've never met in person) and talking about how big and "cool" the older computers were. Massive banks of PCBs just for sub-megabytes of ram. I talked about wanting to build 4MB of ram for a Macintosh Plus out of a few thousand RAM chips. Thats when the first "you're crazy" came out. When I hear that, its a challenge. :)

Fanout issues aside, the cost would have been huge. It was left at that for 3 months. Just a fantasy.

On December 31st I was checking up on www.applefritter.com to see what was going on. I found out that someone else had created an Apple 1 kit, just what I was planning on continuing! (I had started the project about 9 months ago). So I tried to think of projects for it. Ethernet card, MP3 player...RAM visualization? A led for every bit in the computer? Here we go! :)

About 4 years ago I was on ebay, just looking (like womeon window shop
). I came accross 50,000 green LEDs for $300. I had to have this!

4kbyte (32768 LEDs) would be a LITTLE to big. with 400mil spacing, 72x80" in size...and a lot of cash in PCBs. I finally settled on 1kbyte as a goal, and it grew to around 1.7k by the end of the project. The idea in the beginning was to organize the display into 8x8 blocks with spacing for labels. This wastes both wall space and other uses for the display. At the end, it turned into a 180x99 bitmap display.

What am I going to do with this display? Display the physical memory locations in an Altair. The Altair is all about blinking lights, but you can only see one byte at a time! Not enough! :) I think it would also be fun to play pong on the Altair.

The final display will have an interface with dual port SRAM on the Altair. The display will be mapped directly to the memory, so a program to play pong will just be modifying areas in memory. This is similar to a lot of older computers like the Apple II and Macintosh.

In the next posts I will copy what was discussed on sci.electronics.basics, and after that post pictures of the actual PCBs under construction.

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:19 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Wall of RAM
Date: 1 Jan 2006 19:25:50 -0800
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A while back on ebay I was just looking around and came upon 50,000
LEDs.

Ebay is a dangerous place, I can understand how women go to the store
and spend $800 window shoping.

$300 later and I have 50,000 LEDs in the mail

Anyway, I gave away around 1,500 to friends. I still have MANY of them
left.

I thought a "fun" project would be to create a "Wall of RAM". Now it
would be fairly easy to emulate the ram and display the results on the
wall using a CPLD, but what about actually making real ram?

Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?

The goal of the project would be a wall of cards, say 4k of ram max.
This wall of ram would interface to either the Altair that I bought OR
the Apple 1 kit that I bought on ebay.

What do you guys think? It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
would look really neat. :)

Tell me what you think.

Grant

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:19 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 1 Jan 2006 19:42:51 -0800
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Well, in the excitement I forgot that 4,096 bytes is 32,768 bits. A
little out of my range.

So maybe we settle on 1k of ram. I don't think I have 32,000 leds of
wall space to spare!!! ;)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:20 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 1 Jan 2006 21:28:13 -0800
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On second thought, a 1k ram wall would be 121x121" square. I just got
done drafting it. I think maybe I should consider one 256 byte array
and see how it goes.

What considerations will I have to make for wire length? Possibly use
a differential transciever set?

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:20 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On 2006-01-02, logjam <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote:

> On second thought, a 1k ram wall would be 121x121" square. I just got
> done drafting it. I think maybe I should consider one 256 byte array
> and see how it goes.

when you said 4K I thought you meant bits. and that it sounded possible
but lots of work.

> What considerations will I have to make for wire length? Possibly use
> a differential transciever set?

reduce the clock speed until it starts working?

Bye.
Jasen

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:20 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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All right, I'm not crazy any more. If I even try this I'll just use
some dual port sram and fake it. That should be easier and allow a
switch to choose which 1k bank of the memory to look at. A little more
flexible. ;)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:21 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1136203193.354765.163350@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> All right, I'm not crazy any more. If I even try this I'll just use
> some dual port sram and fake it. That should be easier and allow a
> switch to choose which 1k bank of the memory to look at. A little more
> flexible. ;)
>

How many lights/led's would that be? Calculating your original thoughts
showed scary amperage and blinding candle-power. I could be wrong, just a
thought.
Bart

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:21 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 2 Jan 2006 14:13:04 -0800
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I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.

Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg

and a 1 to 1 scale:
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg

You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
LEDs???

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:22 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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logjam wrote:
> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???
>
Put all of them in an array (~220 * 220) ,wire them in
groups serial an parallel, and in desert sun you have a nice
solar panel.(I do not know what the output would be) -)-)-)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:22 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 3 Jan 2006 00:06:47 -0800
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Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
problem. ;)

Here is a picture of a 26x22 array. I got this far and then was worn
out. Used a little over 500 LEDs on this one! I was worn out because
the board was wired completely by hand. I would use a PCB from a
company on this project...

http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...dback_1020.jpg

http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:22 PM
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From: "Bart" <bborb@fusedotnet>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 06:42:43 -0500
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Just a thought, if you're going thru so much labor, maybe have a board
drilled to make a significant sign, shape, or lettering that you could sell
to a business or school, donate to a church.
Bart

"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1136275607.887275.108960@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
> problem. ;)
>
> Here is a picture of a 26x22 array. I got this far and then was worn
> out. Used a little over 500 LEDs on this one! I was worn out because
> the board was wired completely by hand. I would use a PCB from a
> company on this project...
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...dback_1020.jpg
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:23 PM
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Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:49:29 -0600

"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1136172350.049224.231720@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Anyway, I gave away around 1,500 to friends. I still have MANY of them
> left.

Say, do you have a range of colors? I'm probably stupid to ask for it, but
a couple hundred LEDs could be nice for a whacky project. Probably is
stupid since about the only indicator I use regularly is my oscilloscope...

> I thought a "fun" project would be to create a "Wall of RAM". Now it
> would be fairly easy to emulate the ram and display the results on the
> wall using a CPLD, but what about actually making real ram?

Ooo, nice.

> Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
> drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?

Not that I know of. LEDs are exponential, not negative-resistance, like
neon lights are. If you had gotten a couple ten-thousand neon lights, you
could do it (although clock would have to be slowed to the 10kHz range!).

> What do you guys think? It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
> that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
> of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
> would look really neat. :)

You'll need at least 8,192 transistors and 16,384 resistors, to make yea
many RTL inverter R-S flip-flops. To burn LEDs, I suggest using a red to
indicate OFF and a green to indicate ON for each bit. A negative or
positive pulse to the base (supplied by resistor or capacitor) sets state,
while electrical state is read by collector voltage. RTL with typical
transistors will switch in a 100-200 nanoseconds, so should be able to keep
up with a standard clock. I'm not sure how you're going to address it,
since you need essentially eight 9 to 512 decoders!

Lesse, at 5mA per LED, that's a good 25 amperes supply current. 'Gonna want
that as low as possible, i.e., 5V or so. Total dissipation will be on the
order of 125W, not too bad.

For the wiring, runs several feet long will want to be coax or at least laid
against a ground plane or something. Terminating resistors might be a good
idea.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:24 PM
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From: Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net>
Organization: As Little As Possible
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 19:25:50 -0800, logjam wrote:

> A while back on ebay I was just looking around and came upon 50,000
> LEDs.
>
> Ebay is a dangerous place, I can understand how women go to the store
> and spend $800 window shoping.
>
> $300 later and I have 50,000 LEDs in the mail

...

> Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
> drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?

Yes, but it'd be a nightmare to design; you'd have to come up with
a whole refresh scheme. I'd use flip-flops or real RAM.

> The goal of the project would be a wall of cards, say 4k of ram max.
> This wall of ram would interface to either the Altair that I bought OR
> the Apple 1 kit that I bought on ebay.
>
> What do you guys think?

I think you're crazy, but it does sound like a kewl idea. :-)

> It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
> that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
> of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
> would look really neat. :)
>
> Tell me what you think.

If you want to do it, (and have the cash) do it. "If you build it,
they will come". :-) Take pictures, and _then_ see what other people
think. :-)

Good Luck!
Rich

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:24 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:13:04 -0800, logjam wrote:

> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???

Duh. Sell them to some other sucker on Ebay. ;-P

Good Luck!
Rich

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:25 PM
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From: "Daniel Pitts" <googlegrou...@coloraura.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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logjam wrote:
> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???

I've been looking for some for a similar type of project.
My idea was to have a computer case that displays certain patterns,
graphics effects such as:
plasma http://www.coloraura.com/artwork/?applet=Plasma
Fire http://www.coloraura.com/artwork/?applet=Fire
Conway's Game of Life (Haven't posted the applet for that one yet)

I might be interested in buying a few thousand LEDs from you :-)
Depending on their specs.

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:25 PM
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From: spammersarevermin <spammersarever...@krumpli.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On 2 Jan 2006 14:13:04 -0800, logjam blurted:

>I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
>Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
>http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
>and a 1 to 1 scale:
>http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
>You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
>LEDs???

Sell them on EBay ??
Spamming this account signifies
your unqualified consent to a free security audit

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:26 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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This started as a little thought. Now I'm kind of excited about it!

Rather than have gaps all over the place I've designed it to have LEDs
that are always off in binary view mode. Labels could be placed over
the dead LEDs. Then in a normal mode the display could be used as a
giant bitmapped display. This might make the LED wall more attractive
to other people. ;)

I know, I messed up on all the captions. The COST is correct. $255 vs
$350

1296 bytes
400 mil spacing, 10368 bits of display, 4212 LEDs wasted in binary view
mode
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_full.JPG
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_1to1.JPG

1280 bytes
300 mil spacing, 10240 bits of display, 4160 LEDs wasted in binary view
mode
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_full.JPG
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...acing_1to1.JPG


http://groups.google.com/groups/img/dot_clear.gif

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:26 PM
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From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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The 400mil display would be a 180x81 pixel display.
The 300mil display would be a 160x90 pixel display.

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:27 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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Here is a photo of a 400 mil spaced board that I hand made.
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg

It is 22x26 I think, 572 LEDs.

I never finished it. I decided that if I ever finished the proect I
would buy the PC boards. :)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:27 PM
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From: Bob Monsen <rcsurn...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:08:52 -0800
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:06:47 -0800, logjam wrote:

> Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
^^^^^^
> problem. ;)
>

Ah, that explains it. Winter darkness... You crave LIGHT!

--
Regards,
Bob Monsen

"False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they
often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do
little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their
falseness."
-- Charles Darwin

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:28 PM
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logjam wrote:
>
> Up here in Alaska we don't have much desert sun, so that might be a
> problem. ;)
>
> Here is a picture of a 26x22 array. I got this far and then was worn
> out. Used a little over 500 LEDs on this one! I was worn out because
> the board was wired completely by hand. I would use a PCB from a
> company on this project...
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...dback_1020.jpg
>
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...front_1021.jpg


What part of Alaska? That's a very large area. I was there in '73 &
'74 at Ft Greely.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:28 PM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 4 Jan 2006 12:22:50 -0800
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I'm in Anchorage Alaska.

Another benefit of the RamWall is getting your room to look like part
of a borg space ship! :)

I had the 30x27 grid done, but then I remembered about a project I did
back in high school. I made a 8x11 character display that was big
enough to handle nice fonts. So to make the board more usable, I
changed it to a 30x33 grid. Then I decided that someone might only
want one row of characters not 3, so I designed the board so that it
could easily be cut into 3 pieces and reconfigured in any way desired.
:)

The circuit board ended up being 12x13.2. a 30x33 grid cost the same
as 30x27, but it did take an extra 7,000 or so LEDs to fill in the new
space. There are 990 LEDs per circuit board and 18 circuit boards in
my display.

I should be able to display a NICE terminal font on the display, 9 rows
- 22 characters per row. Using a TINY font like those little store
signs and I should be able to fit 14x36, which is barely big enough for
lynx, wouldn't that be fun to see? :) Browse the web in green LEDs...

Here is one of the 3 rows:
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...l_v1_1_row.jpg

Here are all 3 rows:
http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...ll_v1_full.jpg

The new finished dimensions are:
72 inches wide
40 inches tall

What do you think now? Too late to change my mind, the PCBs are
ordered. :D

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:29 PM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!g44g2000cwa .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 4 Jan 2006 17:02:59 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> A while back on ebay I was just looking around and came upon 50,000
> LEDs.
>
> Ebay is a dangerous place, I can understand how women go to the store
> and spend $800 window shoping.
>
> $300 later and I have 50,000 LEDs in the mail
>
> Anyway, I gave away around 1,500 to friends. I still have MANY of them
> left.
>
> I thought a "fun" project would be to create a "Wall of RAM". Now it
> would be fairly easy to emulate the ram and display the results on the
> wall using a CPLD, but what about actually making real ram?
>
> Does anyone think its possible to use capacitors and high current
> drivers to use the LED+capacitor combination as ram?
>
> The goal of the project would be a wall of cards, say 4k of ram max.
> This wall of ram would interface to either the Altair that I bought OR
> the Apple 1 kit that I bought on ebay.
>
> What do you guys think? It seems that with some RAS/CAS decoding logic
> that it shouldn't be too hard. The cons of this project are the cost
> of 4,096 capacitors and PCBs. The pros of the project are, well, it
> would look really neat. :)
>
> Tell me what you think.
>
> Grant

If they ain't BLUE LED's then don't bother, any other colour will look
lame! :->

Dave :)

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:29 PM
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From: "Daniel Pitts" <googlegrou...@coloraura.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 4 Jan 2006 20:20:09 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> I should be able to display a NICE terminal font on the display, 9 rows
> - 22 characters per row. Using a TINY font like those little store
> signs and I should be able to fit 14x36, which is barely big enough for
> lynx, wouldn't that be fun to see? :) Browse the web in green LEDs...
I'm picturing a '70s scifi where they had an extra large green CRT,
complete with burnin :-)
If you put in a PCM driver to control intensity, you can do some truely
interesting effects.
Think plasma.

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:29 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:22:50 -0800, logjam wrote:

> I'm in Anchorage Alaska.
>
> Another benefit of the RamWall is getting your room to look like part
> of a borg space ship! :)
...
> Here is one of the 3 rows:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...l_v1_1_row.jpg
>
> Here are all 3 rows:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...ll_v1_full.jpg
>
> The new finished dimensions are:
> 72 inches wide
> 40 inches tall
>
> What do you think now?

Too much time on your hands, and _WAY_ too much money! ;-P

Cheers!
Rich



http://groups.google.com/groups/img/dot_clear.gif

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:30 PM
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Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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logjam wrote:
> I don't know. These aren't very bright LEDs.
>
> Here is what 1kbyte would look like:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/060102-1kvisual.jpg
>
> and a 1 to 1 scale:
> http://media.diywelder.com/images4/0...visual1to1.jpg
>
> You may think its crazy...but what am I supposed to do with my 50,000
> LEDs???

You could sell them on ebay.


http://groups.google.com/groups/img/dot_clear.gif

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 02:30 PM
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Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On 2006-01-05, Daniel Pitts <googlegrou...@coloraura.com> wrote:
> logjam wrote:
>> I should be able to display a NICE terminal font on the display, 9 rows
>> - 22 characters per row. Using a TINY font like those little store
>> signs and I should be able to fit 14x36, which is barely big enough for
>> lynx, wouldn't that be fun to see? :) Browse the web in green LEDs...
> I'm picturing a '70s scifi where they had an extra large green CRT,
> complete with burnin :-)

one of the X windows screen savers emulates pong on a TV complete with
low level snow, slow phosphor, gaps between the scan lines and loss of
sync near the bottom, of the screen.

> If you put in a PCM driver to control intensity, you can do some truely
> interesting effects.
> Think plasma.

:)

Bye.
Jasen

Grant Stockly 01-08-2006 03:09 PM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!g44g2000cwa .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 8 Jan 2006 16:20:44 -0800
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Here is an update:

PCB Top:
http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010...B_Top_2603.jpg
PCB Bottom:
http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010...ottom_2604.jpg

I should have made the power traces bigger, oh well...

Here are some friends I convinced to help me:

http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._John_2616.jpg

We put the couch on spacers, put a table in front of it, and watched
SciFi Friday...

http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._Back_2617.jpg

http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._John_2612.jpg

Here is 1 of the 18 required panels, finished. :) 990 LEDs!

http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._done_2618.jpg

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:32 AM
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From: "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 8 Jan 2006 23:23:44 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> Here is an update:
>
> PCB Top:
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010...B_Top_2603.jpg
> PCB Bottom:
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010...ottom_2604.jpg
>
> I should have made the power traces bigger, oh well...
>
> Here are some friends I convinced to help me:
>
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._John_2616.jpg
>
> We put the couch on spacers, put a table in front of it, and watched
> SciFi Friday...
>
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._Back_2617.jpg
>
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._John_2612.jpg
>
> Here is 1 of the 18 required panels, finished. :) 990 LEDs!
>
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06010..._done_2618.jpg

Crikey, you are serious!
One of those competely pointless but fun projects - love it!
Gotta see photos of the final thing, keep us updated!

Dave :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:32 AM
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From: "Rich Grise, but drunk" <yahri...@example.net>
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 06:43:45 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

> On 2006-01-05, Daniel Pitts <googlegrou...@coloraura.com> wrote:
>> logjam wrote:
>>> I should be able to display a NICE terminal font on the display, 9 rows
>>> - 22 characters per row. Using a TINY font like those little store
>>> signs and I should be able to fit 14x36, which is barely big enough for
>>> lynx, wouldn't that be fun to see? :) Browse the web in green LEDs...
>> I'm picturing a '70s scifi where they had an extra large green CRT,
>> complete with burnin :-)
>
> one of the X windows screen savers emulates pong on a TV complete with
> low level snow, slow phosphor, gaps between the scan lines and loss of
> sync near the bottom, of the screen.
>
>> If you put in a PCM driver to control intensity, you can do some truely
>> interesting effects.
>> Think plasma.
>
> :)
>
> Bye.
> Jasen

I just checked my KDE screensavers, and DEWD! There sure are some kewl
ones!

Cheers!
Rich

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:32 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 15 Jan 2006 04:32:13 -0800
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Well, its been 8 days since I started soldering.

7920 LEDs done, 9900 LEDs to go

I'll post some pictures in the morning. :) Now I'm off to
comp.arch.fpga for advice on this application. :)

I felt it was a mile stone if anything. If all goes well on Sunday
I'll have another 2970 down which will push me past the half way mark.
Then I'll feel better. Right now this thing is taking a long time. My
average is about 4 hours for each board of 990.

I bought brand new spools of solder in the beginning and I'm keeping
ALL of the cut off legs. Should make for some interesting statistics!
:D

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:33 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 24 Jan 2006 02:39:45 -0800
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Just thought I'd give an update:

-I've soldered 13,200+/-10 LEDs so far.
-Of the 16oz of solder I started with only 7.25oz is left. My food
scale isn't strong enough to weigh the cut off legs. My friend says he
has a digital one, so I'll try to get that.
-Only 5808 LEDs left. I have to finish this project by the 28th in
order to save face to a friend I made a bet with. ;)

Keep pulling for me! I designed the column drivers. Looks like that
will be a project too.
Column Driver for 216 characters:
-54 - 74HC04
-27 - 74HC138
-27 - 74HC133
-27 - 74HC244
-432 - 74HC574
-216 - ULN2803
-1728 - 24ohm resistor
-etc

This is one build, thats for sure. Preliminary calculations are
showing 138.7A draw, 276watts of heat and 416watts of stuff other than
heat. Should be bright enough. :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:33 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 24 Jan 2006 17:45:24 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> Just thought I'd give an update:
>
> -I've soldered 13,200+/-10 LEDs so far.
> -Of the 16oz of solder I started with only 7.25oz is left. My food
> scale isn't strong enough to weigh the cut off legs. My friend says he
> has a digital one, so I'll try to get that.
> -Only 5808 LEDs left. I have to finish this project by the 28th in
> order to save face to a friend I made a bet with. ;)
>
> Keep pulling for me! I designed the column drivers. Looks like that
> will be a project too.
> Column Driver for 216 characters:
> -54 - 74HC04
> -27 - 74HC138
> -27 - 74HC133
> -27 - 74HC244
> -432 - 74HC574
> -216 - ULN2803
> -1728 - 24ohm resistor
> -etc
>
> This is one build, thats for sure. Preliminary calculations are
> showing 138.7A draw, 276watts of heat and 416watts of stuff other than
> heat. Should be bright enough. :)

Holy LED display Batman!
Keep it up, we want lots of progress photos and of the final thing!

Has anyone else ever done an individual project of this scale before?

Dave :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:33 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 26 Jan 2006 00:23:02 -0800
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I was soldering the 14th board on Tuesday. After a little over 600
LEDs I found that they were ALL in backwards!!!! : ( I don't have any
spare boars. At least 300 of the LEDs will need to be desoldered (but
I have a nice station so it shouldn't take too long). Its easier than
it sounds since I spray painted the boards black. Once I "think" I
have the board orientation right I was just blindly pushing them in.
Soldering 10,000 LEDs at 1000 a day tends to do that to you. ;)

At this point I am VERY sick of the 20k LED project. So I decide to
visually (lighting the LEDs) test the 13 completed boards of 990.

I found one other board where I did 32 rows of 30 correctly and put one
row of 30 in backwards.

The other most common defect was soldering one pin and not soldering
the other.

I found that most of my brother's solder joints were cold, so I went
ahead and reflowed about 3 boards of 990 just to be safe even before I
did a test lighting.

If I solder one board Thursday and one board Friday I will have 3
boards for Saturday. At peak efficiency it will take 12 hours of solid
soldring to do 3 boards of 990. I have to get them done by the 28th to
win that bet. ; )

My next project is to make a set of PCBs for the Magic-1 TTL computer.
I think that even better than an Altair driving the display would be a
TTL computer. :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:34 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 26 Jan 2006 02:17:54 -0800
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The Hako desoldering iron works great. Took me about 35-40 minutes to
desolder 300LEDs. Why can't they go in that fast? : ( The whole kit
with extra tips cost me about $280. I never would have bought it
without a strong recomendation from a friend. It works much better
than I thought it would.

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:34 AM
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From: Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net>
Organization: As Little As Possible
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:23:02 -0800, logjam wrote:

> I was soldering the 14th board on Tuesday. After a little over 600 LEDs I
> found that they were ALL in backwards!!!! : ( I don't have any spare
> boars. At least 300 of the LEDs will need to be desoldered (but I have a
> nice station so it shouldn't take too long). Its easier than it sounds
> since I spray painted the boards black. Once I "think" I have the board
> orientation right I was just blindly pushing them in. Soldering 10,000
> LEDs at 1000 a day tends to do that to you. ;)
>
> At this point I am VERY sick of the 20k LED project. So I decide to
> visually (lighting the LEDs) test the 13 completed boards of 990.
>
> I found one other board where I did 32 rows of 30 correctly and put one
> row of 30 in backwards.
>
> The other most common defect was soldering one pin and not soldering the
> other.
>
> I found that most of my brother's solder joints were cold, so I went ahead
> and reflowed about 3 boards of 990 just to be safe even before I did a
> test lighting.
>
> If I solder one board Thursday and one board Friday I will have 3 boards
> for Saturday. At peak efficiency it will take 12 hours of solid soldring
> to do 3 boards of 990. I have to get them done by the 28th to win that
> bet. ; )
>
> My next project is to make a set of PCBs for the Magic-1 TTL computer. I
> think that even better than an Altair driving the display would be a TTL
> computer. :)

OK, what's a "Magic-1"? Oh, wait a sec - google is our friend....
"Your search - "magic-1 ttl computer" - did not match any documents."

When I think "TTL Computer", I think DEC PDP-11, National IMP-16, and
Control Data Enhanced Normandale Controller/Tester. :-)

They all used 74181's. I also used to read the AMD AM2901 bit-slice
manuals and app notes, but I don't know if those things can even be
had in this century. )-;

(I'm sure the whole thing could be done in a CPLD, but what's the
fun in that? ;-) )

Good Luck!
Rich

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:34 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 27 Jan 2006 01:16:43 -0800
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Are you sure? I had documents:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Here is his link:

http://www.homebrewcpu.com/

If you think my project is crazy, take a look at all of his wire wrap
connections. :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:35 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!g14g2000cwa .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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I finished soldering all the LEDs on Saturday and spent Sunday mounting
all the boards. Pictures of the size of this thing at the bottom!

All 19008 LEDs have been tested. Not a single LED was bad.

Here is a picture and weight of 39584 LED legs: (yes, I saved them for
the purpose of weighing them. ;) )
http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012..._Legs_2696.jpg

1565g!

Here is the display from the front:
http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012...Front_2718.jpg

and back:
http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012..._Back_2716.jpg

I have to admit, its huge. It wasn't so big in the drafting program on
my computer screen! Even I only discovered how big it was after all
the LEDs were soldered and I was placing them on the table for
drilling. WOW...

They're attached to an 81x34.5 piece of 1/4" plexiglass.

So, did you think this was really going to happen? ;)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:35 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb .googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
Date: 30 Jan 2006 03:47:53 -0800
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logjam wrote:
> I finished soldering all the LEDs on Saturday and spent Sunday mounting
> all the boards. Pictures of the size of this thing at the bottom!
>
> All 19008 LEDs have been tested. Not a single LED was bad.
>
> Here is a picture and weight of 39584 LED legs: (yes, I saved them for
> the purpose of weighing them. ;) )
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012..._Legs_2696.jpg
>
> 1565g!
>
> Here is the display from the front:
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012...Front_2718.jpg
>
> and back:
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012..._Back_2716.jpg
>
> I have to admit, its huge. It wasn't so big in the drafting program on
> my computer screen! Even I only discovered how big it was after all
> the LEDs were soldered and I was placing them on the table for
> drilling. WOW...
>
> They're attached to an 81x34.5 piece of 1/4" plexiglass.
>
> So, did you think this was really going to happen? ;)

Frigg'n brilliant Grant!
My propeller hat is off to you!

When can we see it actually lit up and playing PONG?

Dave :)

Grant Stockly 05-10-2007 01:35 AM
Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news4.google.c om!news.glorb.com!hwmnpeer01.lga!hwmedia!news.high winds-media.com!hw-filter.lga!fe03.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: "Tim Williams" <tmoran...@charter.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
References: <1136172350.049224.231720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com> <1136173371.832018.44540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com> <1136179693.825070.183100@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups .com> <5c60.43b8f53a.d0b55@clunker.homenet> <1136203193.354765.163350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com> <a3259$43b99411$d844260c$5737@FUSE.NET> <1136239984.338696.151020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com> <1136449750.355847.145030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups .com> <1138099185.523514.24280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com> <1138153524.809655.234750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com> <1138263782.914693.122420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups .com> <pan.2006.01.27.02.33.06.232164@example.net> <1138353403.165536.67230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups. com> <1138610866.840863.145720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>
Subject: Re: Wall of RAM
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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:54:46 -0600

"logjam" <g...@cmosxray.com> wrote in message
news:1138610866.840863.145720@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Here is a picture and weight of 39584 LED legs: (yes, I saved them for
> the purpose of weighing them. ;) )
> http://www.stockly.com/images2/06012..._Legs_2696.jpg
>
> 1565g!

Does a magnet do anything to them? If not you could send them to me and I
could melt them down and cast some interesting object worthy of adorning
such an array :-)

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms


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